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November 15, 2018, 11:04:25 PM
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Author Topic: Discussion on gold for experience  (Read 2314 times)

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Offline IstaryuTopic starter

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Discussion on gold for experience
« on: May 20, 2017, 12:34:23 PM »
Hi!

I played this mod back in the time, when xp tomes were not in the game. What is the idea behind monsters giving (almost) no XP? I really dislike the idea. Diablo is supposed to work like this: kill shit, get xp and items. I don't feel rewarded for killing shit since 99,9% of items are trash, in fact, I just run around and open containers, pick gold and items those drop to sell. This doesn't make drops more valuable, this just makes the gamplay clunky. How is farming gold for 1 hour then running trough an act mindlessly fun?


I am not trying to start a war here, I just want to understand why.


Edit: Feel free to comment on this, and share your opinions, everyone
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 12:56:42 PM by Istaryu »

Offline bluechimera

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Re: Discussion on gold for experience
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2017, 01:01:45 PM »
First and foremost: That is why these things are called "MODS" ;)

Second: Mathematics(mod creator) is extremely flexible, and asks the Aftermath community their thoughts or ideas. If you don't offer your thoughts, how can they be considered?

And Third: if you think about it, you are getting xp from the gold that you got from monsters, or from chests you likely had to fight monsters to get to... so... pseudo-balance?
My understanding is that it starts getting really expensive and you will mostly rely on monster xp more than buying it with gold.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 01:10:22 PM by bluechimera »
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Offline IstaryuTopic starter

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Re: Discussion on gold for experience
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2017, 01:40:13 PM »
I just shared my thoughts. And you missed my point, the mod lost its meaning, for me at least. This game is about slaying thousands of monsters, but i don't feel the need to do it, since i can just ignore them all, because there is totally no reward for killing them.

Offline bluechimera

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Re: Discussion on gold for experience
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2017, 05:26:02 PM »
If I missed your point, I apologize; and I meant: sharing your thoughts before hand (in your absence since last you played, and this seems like a first time post on this forum from you), cause this "gold for xp" was a question he proposed to us all, a while ago.
There is still xp from monsters, just not as much as normal, if you just play more than a couple hours, you should see that xp gain from monsters is still valid, especially on players 8.

I will admit (in my opinion), starting out is a bit slow and tedious... getting to act2 and further you start seeing it pick up more.

The way I see it, it is his mod, and he should create it as he sees fit. He spends a lot of hours trudging through code edits to make this unique contribution. But he does look to community for opinions and ideas


Not saying this alteration, or any other, is going to make everyone happy, because everyone knows you cannot please everyone all the time; however, I have been watching this mod grow and change since 2013... hang around and help by offering your opinions, which may help shape the mod.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 05:35:13 PM by bluechimera »
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Offline Eruditio

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Re: Discussion on gold for experience
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2017, 07:19:04 PM »
Act 1 is unfortunately a terrible introduction to the mod for the specific reason you mentioned.  Raiding the little cabins in Blood Moore and Cold Plains is the best way to advance ...  and yes it sucks and yes it has been noted. 

Offline Mathematics

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Re: Discussion on gold for experience
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2017, 09:05:32 PM »
I played this mod back in the time, when xp tomes were not in the game. What is the idea behind monsters giving (almost) no XP? I really dislike the idea. Diablo is supposed to work like this: kill shit, get xp and items. I don't feel rewarded for killing shit since 99,9% of items are trash, in fact, I just run around and open containers, pick gold and items those drop to sell. This doesn't make drops more valuable, this just makes the gamplay clunky. How is farming gold for 1 hour then running trough an act mindlessly fun?

I'm going to be honest with you.  I like the idea of a currency for everything ... kinda like the Dark Souls series.  I thought that was a clever idea and I was willing to try in Diablo.  I'm going to be more honest with you.  The idea didn't turn out as well as I had hoped for, for exactly the reasons you articulated above.  While there are some pros to the change - namely a lot more of the drops are picked up and advancement can be earned quickly, I feel the cons clearly outweigh the pros.  The biggest con is Act 1 Normal.

Personally though, I'm not afraid to try out an idea.  That's why I took the time to code the idea.  Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose.   This one is more of a loss than a win.

I am not trying to start a war here, I just want to understand why.

You will never have an issue with me for criticizing or attacking an idea - especially if you take the time to explain where you are coming from.  I appreciate your honesty. Secondly, the majority of people here who post on this forum are not imbeciles nor are they immature.  Basic respect goes a long ways.

Edit: Feel free to comment on this, and share your opinions, everyone

I suspect others feel the same way, but I will let them speak for themselves.

Personally I'm willing to abandon the idea and restore the old exp tables.  How do others feel?
The superior man may indeed endure want, but the inferior man, when he experiences want, will give into unbridled excess. - The Ethics of Confucius

Offline bluechimera

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Re: Discussion on gold for experience
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2017, 12:05:24 AM »

Personally I'm willing to abandon the idea and restore the old exp tables.  How do others feel?
I am mostly indifferent to the xp for gold; though, I think it needs refinement if kept.
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Offline metalistas

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Re: Discussion on gold for experience
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2017, 12:11:45 AM »
Act 1 normal can be easily fixed with some easy changes i believe. Currently each char starts with 10k ? gold and you can/should buy one/two starting skills that help a lot. IF every char gets 1-x lvl 1 skill books in inventory on creation it would help to start rolling from act 1. Now all we need is to define how many skills is needed for each char and what are those skills.
For example paladin can rock on with lvl 1 zeal and lvl 1 fanatism. Barb - that buff skill and frenzy. And so on. Since you buy all skills later it wouldn't break anything to have few starting skills from other build that you are thinking about.

As for gold as is now - i am so for it. It's one of the best things so far. I remember playing this mod when inventory was vertical. And the wall between normal and NM was unbelievable. I recall when one death wipes about 1/4 of xp earned and it was hard work to get xp in NM. Gold for xp really cures a lot of problems.
You get xp and gold - you get more xp in total.
You are close to new lvl, but boss fight incoming ? - buy tome, reach new lvl, fight boss with no fear of losing.
You are too weak for new difficulty/new area - farm previous area p8 for gold, get more lvls = more stats = better char.

Honestly i think its a mental problem. People are too used to "how it was". Every  mod is new stuff - adjust your way of thinking and playing with it.

Offline Eruditio

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Re: Discussion on gold for experience
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2017, 12:17:35 PM »
IF every char gets 1-x lvl 1 skill books in inventory on creation it would help to start rolling from act 1.


I thought that plan was already in the works.  Chars start with level 1 of all skills.  Merchants start selling books at level 2 only.

Offline IstaryuTopic starter

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Re: Discussion on gold for experience
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2017, 06:07:06 PM »
I don't think that's gonna solve the problems of a1 norm, something more radical needs to happen. Like reducing the dmg (health?) of everything by half at the start of the act, and then scale it linearly back to where it is by the end of the act. And mana is also a very big problem at early levels.
I just started a spearzon, and shockwave is the only thing i can use to kill big pakcs, but it costs 25 mana, and mana regen is super slow. You cant just go yolo in the middle of a big pack and jab them in the face. 

Offline Mathematics

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Re: Discussion on gold for experience
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2017, 07:03:15 AM »
I'm removing the ability to purchase tomes.  You will be able to find them as a rare drop but exp is coming back.

I will cut monsters base damage in half for the first few levels and gradually restore that damage so it will be back to regular damage
The superior man may indeed endure want, but the inferior man, when he experiences want, will give into unbridled excess. - The Ethics of Confucius

Offline metalistas

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Re: Discussion on gold for experience
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2017, 07:18:38 AM »
I'm removing the ability to purchase tomes.  You will be able to find them as a rare drop but exp is coming back.

I will cut monsters base damage in half for the first few levels and gradually restore that damage so it will be back to regular damage

Well, honestly i am really against it. About bringing xp back or not - i am not gonna discuss that since i am ok with both ways. But tomes add that extra step needed to overcome next difficulty or helping you to reach that safe spot xp vise before big fights. Death penalty is high in NM and +xp% items will not be used a lot since you are looking for other attributes. And overall you are not giving something super overpowered with tomes - more levels only mean more stats, marginaly better synergies. But skill points, items, materials - you still have to get them yourself.
And in the end with tomes, skills, materials coming from monsters what is the use of gold ? Gamble items ?

Offline Eruditio

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Re: Discussion on gold for experience
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2017, 10:58:05 AM »
I'm removing the ability to purchase tomes.  You will be able to find them as a rare drop but exp is coming back.

I will cut monsters base damage in half for the first few levels and gradually restore that damage so it will be back to regular damage


Agree on the second.


As for finding tomes.... hmm.  Those will be hoarded in stash and then used as one big xp dump for a boss/gear option.  You are probably imagining that chars get a quick small boost when one of those drops but I doubt it will work that way in practice. 

Offline IstaryuTopic starter

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Re: Discussion on gold for experience
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2017, 12:04:45 PM »

Agree on the second.


As for finding tomes.... hmm.  Those will be hoarded in stash and then used as one big xp dump for a boss/gear option.  You are probably imagining that chars get a quick small boost when one of those drops but I doubt it will work that way in practice.


Well, that's the goal of them, i guess, since XP penalty is super high. I mean kinda that's what you do now with tomes.

Offline Eruditio

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Re: Discussion on gold for experience
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2017, 02:00:37 PM »
Yes, when purchaseable, you just dump the $ needed for the next level.  There's 0 point in buying/using them unless it will give you a level.


That playstyle won't change whether they are purchaseable or random drops.




Offline IstaryuTopic starter

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Re: Discussion on gold for experience
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2017, 03:27:02 PM »
Also, something came on my mind. If the realm ever launched, you would have to share the drops and gold with 1 or more ppl, and that would be a big prolem, i think.

Offline IstaryuTopic starter

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Re: Discussion on gold for experience
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2017, 12:29:42 PM »
I apolgoize for the double post, but I got to ask something. When is the LE fix coming? We have a bunch of ppl waiting for it at the median xl forums.

Offline metalistas

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Re: Discussion on gold for experience
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2017, 12:49:52 PM »
A bunch = 3-5 max  ;D

Offline bluechimera

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Re: Discussion on gold for experience
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2017, 02:34:18 PM »
Meh, you Median guys will all be playing the new 2017 core release as of Friday anyway :)
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Offline Mathematics

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Re: Discussion on gold for experience
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2017, 08:45:50 PM »
Meh, you Median guys will all be playing the new 2017 core release as of Friday anyway :)

What is this?
Does Bro Laz still mod Median?
The superior man may indeed endure want, but the inferior man, when he experiences want, will give into unbridled excess. - The Ethics of Confucius

Snejportal  |  D2SE  |  D2SE Mods  |  Aftermath  |  General Discussion (Moderator: Mathematics)  |  Topic: Discussion on gold for experience
 

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